A Cowboy Hat and a Glass of Scotch
Great interview with Ron White over at Dead-Frog. You may know Ron as 1/4 of the Blue Collar Comedy Tour. If you're having trouble placing him, he's the funny one.
Did I ever tell you about the time I tried to have a debate on The Sound between David Cross and Larry the Cable Guy? Cross, to his credit, was happy to do it. LtCG, not so much.
Here's a bit that I originally thought was about Cross, but I misread it in haste, turns out (per Todd Jackson, editor of dead-frog) that it's about Dane Cook, and we all dislike him, right?
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Did I ever tell you about the time I tried to have a debate on The Sound between David Cross and Larry the Cable Guy? Cross, to his credit, was happy to do it. LtCG, not so much.
Here's a bit that I originally thought was about Cross, but I misread it in haste, turns out (per Todd Jackson, editor of dead-frog) that it's about Dane Cook, and we all dislike him, right?
If you’re going to start trashing another comedian, which there’s no call for in the first place, I know David Cross and Larry have a rift going too, but if you do, then we’re going to take a look at your material. And it better be great and it’s not. It’s punchline-less, he’s very very charming. My manager thinks he’s funny. If you are going to be throwing rocks, then we’re going to take a look, and it better be great. So if you’re not Bill Hicks, and he ain’t, then I would just shut-up. He also makes gillions of dollars.
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posted by Jesse Thorn at Tuesday, March 07, 2006
13 Comments:
So Ron White doesn't think there's a reason to trash another comedian, and then proceeds to?
Not much of a grasp of irony on the BCCT, I take it. That's probably why he doesn't like David Cross...
I wouldn't say he trashes him, I think he's just tactfully defending a friend. And what he says is true... Cross' acting is seriously hurting for jokes these days. I've gotten in trouble for saying this before, but he isn't doing great standup these days. He's such a genius that even his kinda-lazy stuff is very good, but everything feels like a first draft to me. That's what Ron is pointing out. And Ron White is pretty damned funny.
To clarify: if I had to pick between Ron White and David Cross, I'd pick Cross every time, but White's criticism is valid.
Meant to say Cross' act, not his acting.
In fairness, I haven't seen Cross lately, and I'm not familiar with Ron White. The only part of the BCCT I ever see are the commercials and the final segment when the other three are sitting around trading jokes, and then only when I'm waiting for something else to come on.
Then again, I am an East Coast, Jewish, leftist, pseudo-intellectual who doesn't understand traditional American values. So I've got that going for me, which is nice...
I'm an aetheist who voted for Sharpton, so how much more out of touch with heartland values can you get? I do work at a church, though.
That said, If you ever catch him, Ron White is very funny. The only one of those guys worth watching, imo (Engvall and LtCG are hard to watch, Foxworthy is fine, but corny as you would expect).
That opinion is based solely on having seen his special on TV, I've never seen him live. I've heard criticism that he doesn't write any new material, but I dunno if it's valid. What I saw was funny.
"I'm an aetheist who voted for Sharpton, so how much more out of touch with heartland values can you get?"
You win.
I'm disappointed with the White's comment about "lacking punchlines." I had hoped that comedy had moved a little further and had opened the mainstream to tastes of non-traditional comedy performances. I mean, does every joke have to be a knock-knock joke?
Punchlines are such a tired art that it's very difficult to come up with something that's truly original (not impossible, but it takes a lot of effort to not vomit up trite material.)
We should have seen the potential of mostly punchline-less comedy from the success of the Pythons and the many excellent comics/troupes that appeared in more recent years as well.
I'm very much a fan of David Cross, and I have to applaud him for being genuine... Every time I've had a chance to see him live, he always had new "material" ...granted much of it was "off-the-cuff" stuff, but I think that there's something to be said for someone who doesn't just tour the country every year with the same exact act that he's had since the early nineties (as is, unfortunately, the case with too many comedian
I'll admit that Cross seems to have gotten lazy as of late, but perhaps it's because he's not out doing a big tour with perfectly-solidified material. Look at great touring comics like Lous C.K. ...he also does a lot of experimental stuff while touring, and it's not always a hit. I'll admit that LCK's approach is more comic-centric and rigorous as far as weeding out bad material, but I think that's because Cross has carved himself into more of a commentator/comedian rather than a comedian-entertainer; this changes the focus of the performance.
I did have a chance to see the Blue Collar Comedy tour special when I was visiting my lady friend's parents this past holiday season. I must say, I was not impressed. I'm sure that it's fine for some people, and that's great... everyone needs to have their own niche in comedic entertainment; however, I'd hardly call any of the material creative or anything outside of "tried and true" (and that's putting is as favorably as I can.)
I guess that I have to add my "out of touch with the heartland" credentials here... hmm. Well, I'm an atheist, I was born in a different country, I've always lived in fully or semi-metropolitan areas, and... umm... I've given Jesus wedgies ever since middle school wood-shop class.
Anyhow, this all fits into the comedy snobbery (which is fine by me.) David Cross is very much a comedy/indie/political snob, and some people have a more difficult time appreciating that than others. He is, however, not perfect, so we should try to avoid the whole fanboy mentality of "he is the funniest man alive and can do no wrong." David Cross has misstepped just like everyone else, and some of his material is weak. It's clear to see the range is quality between Shut Up You Fucking Baby and It's Not Funny (as well as the various TV specials.)
That being said, I don't know anyone who is deeply into comedy who would not pick Cross over White; I know that's my choice. There's really only a limited amount of "here's your sign" that one can take before one's body starts to reject it on a purely biological level, and I always try to avoid bleeding from my various person bits.
Once again, I'm the guy supporting the Blue Collar Comedy Tour guy and putting down David Cross, American Comedy Hero, but here goes...
* I agree about the general awfulness of Blue Collar Comedy. I think Ron White is the bright light (and that Jeff Foxworthy is innofensive) in that dim sky.
* Andrey... Louis CK and Monty Python are both *full* of punchlines. They may not always be predictable, but they're there. That's just part of the structure of humor, whether you're Bill Hicks or Will Rogers.
White's criticism of Cross is, basically, while he's charming and talented, he just doesn't have a lot of jokes. And that I agree with. It hasn't always been this way, and I thought his more recent CD was tighter than "Shut Up You Fucking Baby," which I thought was a mess... but I think it's a fair criticism.
Much of Cross' work feels like a first draft to me. When he's going to do some free comedy night in the East Village, where the folks are there because they idolize him, that works. But I don't think his analysis or opinions are strong enough to support his lack of actual jokes.
What's special about Louie is that he's doing material that is so funny that it can conquer almost any audience, "edgy" though it may be. That's why he goes to St. Louis regularly... if they get it, it's a home run.
This is what lots of other "edgy" "alternative" comics do, too. Todd Barry has like two or three hours of tight-as-a-drum material that can kill anywhere. To me, there's no honor in being casual about your craft just because your audience will let you.
All that said, the provisos: my personal experiences with Cross have been great, he was really nice when he was on The Sound in it's infancy, I think he's a genius, and I appreciate how passionate he is about supporting things that are good in the face of things that are lame.
Perhaps I should have been more clear regarding the punchline comment. Louis C.K. is indeed full of punchlines (at least this is true his material), and I had never claimed otherwise. I think that this is true (to much lesser extent) of Monty Python; however, the distinction was between comedy that solely relies on a single punchline at the end to convey the entertainment and comedy where the punchline is not the only star of the show, and in many cases finds itself acting as the accent rather than the star at all.
I'm going to have to disagree with you about the two albums. I feel that SUYFB was very solid and well thought out. I felt that It's Not Funny was far less polished. Another complaint is this: SUYFB had a lot of comedy that incorporated Bush bashing, but I felt that It's Not Funny had a lot of Bush bashing that incorporated comedy. The focus had switched from entertainment to making the statement, and I feel that comedians are best when they keep comedy as the first priority.
Plus, I don't think that I need to mention that SUYFB was a two disc set, whereas It's Not Funny was a mere one disc. Mathematically speaking, SUYFB is a full 100% "more" comedy than the later album. I'd provide figures and charts if blogger would allow it; however, it's not meant to be.
Disagreements such as these cannot possibly be solved with mere words; therefore, I think that the only reasonable and rational solution (final solution) to this problem is some sort of tag-team thumb-wrestling matchup / baked-beans cook-off. Note how there wasn't a holocaust reference in there, no matter how enticingly close it came to it.
In a way, I think that Cross plays to his audience with much less regard for mass appeal than most comics. It's not to say "ooh... look how badass he is... what a rebel!" I'm just making the point that Cross has a history of doing his craft on his own terms. Perhaps this means that his material is geared to the fans that now idolize him.
As a side-note, the Tinkle shows in the Village are always awesome and INCREDIBLY packed full of people. They even pack the room upstairs where people watch a monitor feed of the show downstairs, and they do this consistently. The shows are cheap, and the comics that participate are excellent (and plenty of great/big names show up to perform.) Actually, this is where I first saw a live Louis C.K. performance.
Now back to the lecture at hand... it's possible that Cross' approach of following his own ideals and having his fan-base follow him is allowing his act to become more and more lazy, and this is unfortunate. However, there is something to be said for him being more principled than most. I mean, look at how much shwag many comics of his size try to push on the public. How many superfinger shirts can Dane Cook possibly want to sell? (not bashing Cook, but he has a lot of merch that he likes to push.) Perhaps Cross is comfortable enough with his place in the entertainment/comedy world that his drive to become bigger and bigger is eclipsed by his stubbornness (snobbishness) to do things exactly his way, regardless of what others think (for good or bad.)
kindly disregard grammatical mistakes in the above comment; I was too lazy to proof-read it.
OK, clarification is necessary. This response is NOT, I repeat NOT about Cross. It's about Dane Cook. He mentions David Cross and Larry as an aside, but he's talking about Cook here.
Whether he feels the same way about Cross I do not know. I didn't ask. He's talking about Dane Cook here.
Todd Jackson
Dead-Frog
http://www.dead-frog.com
Yeah, but he could use his loyal, built-in audience to do really, really brilliant comedy, rather than just kind of dicking around. I mean, his dicking around is like a normal man's brightest moment, but it's still dicking around.
On the other hand, if I were in his position, I'd probably be dicking around, so who am I to judge?
Other issues:
It's about proportion of humor to blabber, not volume of humor.
Feel free to say anything awful about Dane Cook you want, I encourage it.
re: Dane Cook: can I say it incredibly loudly while flailing around the stage in an overly-physical manner? Perhaps I could summarize it using a three or four letter abbreviation and then proceed to pronounce it as if it was a word?
Even though you are actually correct about the humor-to-blabber ration, I'd like to imagine that it's not the case... because this means that Gallagher can release a 164 disc album that can possibly be "the funniest thing ever" This remote possibility allows me to cling to the comedy volume idea with a fuzzy feeling in my heart.
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